Susan Barfield:
Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining another episode of The Leverage Report. Really excited to have Sindhu Daniel here today. Sindhu, your firm, Grant & Eisenhofer, is sponsoring the Women in Legal Leadership Breakfast panel discussion. Excited to have a few minutes to just really understand what are you guys talking about at this panel discussion and why should other women be attending? But before we just dive right into that, if you don’t mind sharing a little bit about your background and the why. Why did you pursue a career in law?
Sindhu Daniel:
So as my name probably shows, I’m an immigrant to this country, so I came at a very young age. And my parents came with $200, and so we really didn’t have a lot. And because of that, they never owned a house for many, many years. And there were so many times that they were just economically taken disadvantage of and just for being poor, quite frankly. And so I know that when my parents finally did have a little bit of money and when I was renting an apartment and my landlord took my first month, last month security deposit thing, my dad even out of principle was like, “You have to become an attorney in all these injustices that occur to people just because they don’t have access to the legal profession.”
And I think I just always knew that I wanted to do something that could help, and you try to right the wrongs. And that’s what I think we as attorneys in all these different spaces, whatever those wrongs are, whether they’re corporate, whether they’re legal aid, it’s trying to remedy that injustice that goes across the country, which works its way back to our women’s breakfast.
Susan Barfield:
So interesting. Did you pursue the mass torts from the very beginning, or how did you evolve into mass torts?
Sindhu Daniel:
So I didn’t. I fell into mass torts and working on the plaintiff side, just after I had a child 25 years ago, I decided to reenter. I took about a six-month break just to take care of her. And a lot of these young people won’t know what it’s like, but I actually had to look in a newspaper in a want ad. And they don’t really know what a newspaper is dealing with classified ads, but that’s the way it was back then. And I responded to an ad that would be a temporary position for three to six months. And I’m like, oh, I’ll try that.
And I ended up, it was with Seeger Weiss, which is a [inaudible 00:02:41]-based law firm, and instead of staying there for three to six months, I stayed there for 17 years, and I became the first female minority partner ever. So in that sense it was a wonderful, wonderful experience for me and something that I really, really hold dear to me. So that’s how I started really in mass torts. It was really with Seeger Weiss is how I started working on the plaintiff side. And I’ve been doing it for almost 24 years now.
Susan Barfield:
And you’ve held some really impressive leadership roles. Maybe share with those that are listening some of those leadership roles that you’ve held and also any early influences of folks that helped you get to where you are today and to be viewed as such a female leader within our industry.
Sindhu Daniel:
Very kind words. And I’ve been doing these cases kind of behind the scenes for so many years, but I remember Judge Fallon, who was the judge for Vioxx and then Xarelto, he saw that there were just not a lot of females and minorities being represented in a lot of these leadership positions. And so he actually set the stage and said, “We have to have different people on these leadership positions, these PSCs.” And he was really the first person who made it clear that I won’t accept another leadership slate that is not more diverse. And I really thank him so much for really starting the movement because I’m really a product of that movement that really wanted more representation. And because of him, I was so lucky.
And really Chris Seeger, really he put me up for it even though I didn’t want to. I didn’t have enough courage to be a voice of my own. He was my boss and he said, “Oh, you should do this.” And whether I wanted to or not, I did it. And I’m so grateful that I was able to, and he gave me the opportunity. So really it was Judge Fallon who really saw that need, and it was Chris who allowed me to really flourish.
Susan Barfield:
That’s awesome. Well, I’m excited to hear a little bit more and get a little sneak peek about the Women in Leadership Breakfast and the panel discussion I know that’s happening on October 12th at 8:30. And Kim Adams, who is just another phenomenal attorney in this space, so classy and just so well-respected. So what are you you guys going to be talking about this at MTNP in just a few weeks?
Sindhu Daniel:
And so every year and every session, because we have it both in April and October, every session is very different. And so we try to do things that are very timely. Right now the Barbie movie addressed a lot of feminism and feminist viewpoints, and we’re going to talk about the proponents and the opponents of those kind of issues that come up. We address a lot of different things. And because we have been doing this for so many years, we really try to talk about, and in our panel, the people on the panel really represent things that happened in the past, things that are happening right now and things that happen in the future. We really think it’s important, because we have such a diverse group of people who come to this event, that they see that this is how it was not 40 years ago, like 10 years ago, five years ago.
Because the momentous changes that have taken place in such a short period of time, which has a lot to do with Mass Torts Made Perfect and the strides that they have made and their agendas that they have made very clear that they want diversity and women to be equally represented. Those are really the changes that we really try to do in part in our breakfast. But this time we’ll be discussing the Barbie themes, even touching on some female rivalry issues, like how we as women may expect more out of a woman who’s in leadership than we do a man in leadership. And we may accept some shortcomings or issues that we wouldn’t accept from a woman, but we will then in turn accept it from a man.
So trying to see a lot of different issues that come when you do start to see representation, because we really think it’s important to make sure that people realize we know that we’re not men bashing. I think that becomes a concept. And I speak to a lot of men at MTMP. And they’re like, “Oh, there’s a women’s breakfast. I guess I’ll see you afterwards.” It’s not for women. It’s for all attendees. We’re hoping that men attend this event too. I always tell people it’s absolutely an event that we want all people to attend. And I think at some point, even while the focus is mainly on women and women’s rights, it’s really about gender equality. And at some point Pap and Sharon may decide, we may even change the title a little bit because it’s really about gender equality and some of the great people that we have had speak at this event, because I really don’t know that people understand really what it’s about all the time. We’ve had F. Lee Bailey there. We’ve had wonderful judges. Judge Pallmeyer, who handles the baby formula cases, she just spoke at the last one. She’s incredible. Judge Cordinez. And Judge Moss is actually on our panel this time. These are female judges who have really made such amazing strides and continue to make strides for women in the law.
Just our panelists have been wonderful. We’ve had survivors of sexual assault who are really trying to get the word out to remind people of their rights. We’ve done almost not training, but just informational sessions on taking those types of sexual assault cases and the real emphasis on how it’s not like the usual mass torts that we do. You can’t have the same call center type mentality. So it’s just really addressing different issues. Some of our panelists, Susan Knape, who is the owner of a Case for Women, she really deals with getting cases that are really just women-driven, like the talc cases are ovarian cancer and you’re dealing with women who have a fatal diagnosis and their families.
And even in the 3M litigation, she was getting female veterans, and she was really focusing a lot on that. I don’t think people realize, even in a low testosterone case, that’s obviously a male driven case, it is the women and their wives who call and do the intake because they really know a lot of the symptoms. So it’s such a really, really amazing group of people that we get to work with.
Susan Barfield:
You mentioned gender equality. One of the questions that I was curious your response would be, how do you think women are uniquely impacted in this industry, in the mass tort industry?
Sindhu Daniel:
I think, quite frankly, we’ve seen and we’ve heard a lot of different information on studies, even medical studies, we learned that sometimes women are not represented in the medical study that takes place. So really any drug that’s affected, there’ll be a higher rate that they’ve tested on men. So in that sense, you even hear about just how it affects the cases, the product liability cases that we do. But there’s been a lot of change in that. So we’re seeing and hoping that that continues to change.
But in our industry specifically, look, I think it was very much a old boys network, and I think women coming into this space, especially when so many of the cases that we do are really, really female, the issues and the injuries are very, very dynamic and they’re very female specific, like talc, like power morcellator, Ethicon power morcellator was absolutely a case that only affected women. And so there are so many cases that we do where really that female involvement, it’s so important.
And so clients call, and they want to know that they can speak to somebody intimately about subjects that they may not feel comfortable speaking to about with a man. And even we’ve found a lot of men feel more comfortable, our low testosterone clients felt more comfortable speaking to women because they knew they would have that empathy, And not that there aren’t men who are very sympathetic It’s just they felt more comfortable with women.
And then we’ve been able to really give statistics at our breakfast about how women have really created such change, and there are statistics to prove that the outcomes have been better in trials with women who have been first chair, second chair, just involved in the trial preparation because it really brings such a different atmosphere, and you get a different perspective on everything. When you talk to anyone, young, old, men, women, but I think women really bring a different perspective to a lot of these cases.
Susan Barfield:
Speaking of perspective, I’m interested to hear your perspective on the Mass Torts Made Perfect conference as a whole and just your experience and why you would encourage people to come and attend this conference.
Sindhu Daniel:
I think it has become so big, but it’s still pretty intimate. You go into these rooms and you learn about every single case. There’s not a case that’s really not covered. You go through that agenda, and you just pick out what you want to attend. And obviously we all go to a lot of different conferences, and we get to hear some highlights of the case, but so many of the speakers, they want you to come up to them afterwards. They have no problem discussing the case. And there is not one time that I have been to a Mass Torts Made Perfect conference where I have not learned something new about the cases that I am involved in. And so you really do get to have that one-on-one interaction, and you may get some just general information during the large sessions. But during those smaller sessions, the things that are discussed are so important to what we do.
And it does go through the day-to-day issues that we have, even in terms of we have 500 cases or fact sheets due on one day. How is your firm tackling it? And it’s really more of an intimate setting than people think. I know they think like, oh, there’s 1,000 people coming, and I’m not going to be able to really learn and ask real personal questions. But you will. If you go through that agenda, it is really important to make those connections, and you really do get to meet people in such a different way in the smaller sessions especially.
I would definitely go to as many breakout sessions as you can, including the big event because look, I have accosted many a speaker. As soon as they get off-stage, I’m right in the corner asking them a question that they may not feel comfortable answering in front of 1,000 people. But I have asked them a million questions, and every single speaker who goes up there wants you to ask them questions and wants you to interact and wants you to get involved in the litigation. Without these cases, they’re not going to be beneficial, and it’s our strength in numbers.
Susan Barfield:
Sure. Well, of course, the speakers that are there, they’re passionate about what they’re talking about, and so if you’re taking a great interest, of course they’re going to love to continue to talk about it because they’re probably experts at what they’re talking about networking,
Sindhu Daniel:
Women who attend, especially when I was younger and you have smaller children, you go to Mass Torts Made Perfect. You go to some of the sessions during the day, and then you’re like, “I’m tired. I just want to not go and have dinner,” or whatever. It’s really those events where people let their hair down, and you get to get these relationships that you build with people. And I really do think it’s tiring, and especially if you’re from the East Coast, you’re on and up 24 hours sometimes. But it is really meeting those people and those relationships that I’ve had now for over 20 years that make such a difference.
So I think it’s really important to push yourself to get out there and make the most of the events too, because there are a lot of these women in leadership, even just a happy hour you go to, and it’s pretty intimate, and you get to meet so many people. And I think those relationships, because when you do have a question about, hey, should I get involved in a case? It’s those women who will really tell you the truth. And it’s those women that I have in my life that I’m so lucky to have.
That you can ask a very specific question about, “Hey, what did you think of that expert opinion in this case?” And you can also ask other questions about how are you dealing with asking your boss for a raise? How are you dealing with trying to become a partner if you’re not a partner or how to get to the next level and should I seek leadership? It’s all of those things that you can ask this group of people that I don’t think when we do webinars or anything else, it’s that really one-on-one that you get. And the women at these female breakfasts, they are so encouraging. They want to be mentors. I could not be with a better panel every single time.
Susan Barfield:
And I think what you’re mentioning is so important for women to hear, because in the past when I’ve talked about networking at these events or I’ve talked to other ladies and they’re just like, “I don’t really want to go to all the large parties at night. That’s not my thing.” But I think you’re giving some great advice on maybe the smaller, intimate, whether it’s the sessions or go to the dinners, don’t just say no and go back to the hotel room because you’re going to miss the opportunity to really get to know people that could be lifelong friends and colleagues that you could really build a relationship and rely upon. Is there any specific event, besides the breakfast, any specific event that you look forward to every six months at MTMP?
Sindhu Daniel:
Well, I think Mike Papantonio, he does such an amazing job of opening it up. He always knows the most current themes, and he really opens the whole thing up for us and makes the tenor of the entire event so different. Pat and Mark Proctor have been really champions of this female breakfast, but Sharon Booth, she’s really our champion.
Susan Barfield:
Oh gosh, yes.
Sindhu Daniel:
Without her, none of this would have happened. And she keeps all the statistics on how the diversity and female membership in even coming to and attending these events has changed. She makes sure that there’s a woman on every panel. She’s the one, and she’s so relentless, and we’re so grateful to her. Without her, I never would have had all the speaking opportunities I’ve been able to have. So really she’s championed all of this with Mark Proctor and Pat. Without their support, we never would have had this. They come to our women’s breakfast. They open it up. One of them generally always comes and opens up our breakfast, so they realize how important it is. Even though there’s another big session going on in the big room, they realize this is a really important event, and we’re so lucky to have their support.
But I do really want to make sure that we always really try to make it clear that men are not just welcome. We expect men to come because women’s rights and feminism and gender equality, it is not a women’s specific issue. It is a worldwide, it is a national issue. It’s a country international issue. So we really want to make sure that we welcome everyone and want more diversity even in our little group to come, because I don’t think there’s a better group of people. Attorneys, really we are the people who are supposed to right the wrongs.
And going back to my original Judge Fallon example, he realized there was something wrong, and then we as the attorneys made a change. And really the way we see females who have been in leadership now, it has changed so much in the last 10 years. So I think to our credit, we took a problem, we saw a problem and we made a change. And I think there’s no one better than attorneys to really do that. We have to right the wrongs that are out there.
Susan Barfield:
Yes. Sindhu, this has been phenomenal.
Sindhu Daniel:
Thank you so much for having me.
Susan Barfield:
Absolutely. This is so important, and I certainly hope that those that are listening will think long and hard and make sure they attend at 8:30 on October the 12th, your panel, and come participate, both men and women. I know when I’ve attended that there’s men there as well. So I’m glad that you brought that up. I’m humble and I’m grateful that you took the time to connect. Of course, with your leadership in this industry, it’s an honor to have you on another episode of The Leverage Report. So thank you, Sindhu.
Sindhu Daniel:
Very grateful. Thank you so much for having me. And we can’t wait to have you on our panel, too, to talk about female-owned businesses and what you’re doing because that’s exactly what we’re trying to empower because it’s about getting the word out about what you do, too.
Susan Barfield:
Yeah, absolutely. I would love it. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you.
Sindhu Daniel:
Bye-bye.
