Jon Robinson:
Welcome everyone. Thank you for joining Caseworks. Caseworks helps law firms improve profitability with a trusted outsourced resource that facilitates cost-effective operational sale while converting overhead into expensable case costs.
Jon Robinson:
Welcome Susan Barfield, CEO of Caseworks, and Dave Thomas, VP of Business Development for Law Tigers. Today, we are talking about grassroots strategies for personal injury lawyers, something that I know Dave knows a ton about, and Susan actually has been able to apply Caseworks to her own business. So, we’re going to talk a little bit about the B2B side and a lot about the personal injury side. Thank you both for joining us today.
Susan Barfield:
Thank you, Jon.
Dave Thomas:
Thank you, Jon.
Jon Robinson:
Dave, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and about Law Tigers?
Dave Thomas:
So, I’ve been with Law Tigers going on about four years now. My background prior to Law Tigers, is about 20 years in healthcare, talent acquisition as a executive. So, making the switch over to the legal field was definitely a breath of fresh air. It’s always exciting to have a new challenge, but I’ve had a blast the last three and a half, four years here at Law Tigers building out our memberships across the country.
Dave Thomas:
For all the guys that are familiar with us, or some that’s not, we are a niche motorcycle marketing firm, and we have a comprehensive marketing program that is designed to generate high value motorcycle cases for our members across the country. I currently serve as VP of Business Development and definitely enjoying what I’m doing. Thanks for having me.
Jon Robinson:
Yeah, thank you for joining us. So, grassroots marketing is a large component of what you do at Law Tigers. For those that aren’t familiar with grassroots marketing, can you give us a little bit of background on what grassroots marketing is?
Dave Thomas:
Yeah, so grassroots marketing, I tend to strip things down a little bit as I think most people would say, a word of mouth, creating a referral engine. But to its truest form, it’s out there building those relationships and making those meaningful connections to invoke relationship through a more-so authentic approach. I always say that it’s very difficult to not like someone once you’ve actually gotten to know them and understand their story.
Dave Thomas:
So, that’s what we try to do at Law Tigers. We tell our story, and through the process we were able to tap in to the logically and emotionally connection of potential prospects and also partners. The end goal is for to create those evangelists in the community and allow them to talk voluntarily about your business, and to repeat that over and over again, and hence there goes your power of word of mouth marketing, and creates a one heck of a referral program and engine for your firm or company.
Jon Robinson:
It’s funny because you would think what works in the real world in interpersonal relationships would apply to the business world. I actually met both of you through referral relationships, and it’s a very natural thing. You build a relationship with someone, you earn their trust. If a business relationship comes up, you do business together. Then when the time comes for someone to ask for a recommendation for something you, of course go back to the well and what has worked for you in the past.
Jon Robinson:
The same thing applies to personal injury firms. If a plaintiff has a great experience with a law firm, they’re going to want to then go and refer someone else who was in their network when they needed an attorney back to the lawyer that did a great job for them.
Dave Thomas:
Absolutely.
Jon Robinson:
How have you seen this applied specifically to PI lawyers? Maybe how would it would differ from another execution of grassroots marketing? But specifically for PI lawyers, how have you seen this be applied?
Dave Thomas:
Well, I can only speak to Law Tigers because we did that just for PI firms. For our business, we have three mediums, if you’re not familiar, one of which is digital marketing of course and traditional advertisement and then grassroots.
Dave Thomas:
But the huge indicator for us when we look at the data is 38 to 40% of our business is directly tied to our relationships in the community through grassroots marketing. So, it’s the efforts that we put towards a segment, group of people, which are the riding community for us. We target them, but we also go out there and, like I said, build those connections and relationships.
Dave Thomas:
If you’re doing it correctly, you really should invoke and create those connections where now it’s almost spreading viral. Very similar to what we’re doing in today’s digital world. I think that the goal, even through social platforms, you’re growing your network. In much respect you’re growing at a faster pace than you can do by getting in your car and shaking hands and winning friends and influencing people.
Dave Thomas:
But I think one challenge in setting forth your strategy solely on a digital strategy or social strategy strategy is that you don’t have the opportunity to create that authentic relationship. We know that the end game from a product or fir, to the end user or to a potential prospect, it’s all about who they like and trust.
Dave Thomas:
We feel that through grassroots that gives us a competitive advantage, and so we’re doing that across the country in 32 states, 47 markets for firms, and it’s working out beautifully. But it also compliments our other marketing strategies. I know that we’re probably going to touch on that later in the discussion.
Jon Robinson:
Yeah, absolutely. How do you go about measuring the effectiveness of grassroots strategies? It touches branding somewhat, but is there a way to quantify it?
Dave Thomas:
Yeah. I’ve been doing this for a while, and I started my career in talent acquisition. The one thing you always want to track is how did they hear about us? Where are you in your business from, I think that’s transferable over into a business development or anything that’s growing a clientele base.
Dave Thomas:
Now, there is, I think, some margin in that number, but I can tell you our higher percentage of strategies that we track, and it’s normally word of mouth, that is sitting around 38 to 40%. Now, much of that can be traveled through our traditional strategies, but also digital play as well. But for what do, it’s worth its weight in gold. Because it’s creating those evangelists in the community that are just repeating those efforts. Once again, it just really helps us move the bottom line and skill at a quicker rate.
Jon Robinson:
Susan, obviously, referrals are a really important source of business for law firms. But it applies not just to law firms, to other businesses as well. We talked about earlier how a lot of your business, a lot of the firms that work with Caseworks, have actually come through referrals. Can you talk about how to take a positive customer experience and turn that into a referral for a business, whether it’s a law firm or for a B2B entity?
Susan Barfield:
Yeah, for sure. Just to comment a little bit, Caseworks has grown, pretty much doubled, year over year since we started in 2015, essentially it’s been all word of mouth. So, we’ve provided a great service, and kind of, what you said Dave is, you’re trying to create those raving fans.
Susan Barfield:
Law firms, especially for mass tort, they just don’t have the infrastructure to be able to handhold and provide that level of service to their plaintiffs. So, that’s where Caseworks has really highlighted our services as far as being able to take care of those clients through the case development pipeline.
Susan Barfield:
So, as I mentioned, we’ve grown year over year, doubled in size. The one thing that I would probably recommend is not really focusing on that referral, just do everything you can to focus on creating a great client experience.
Jon Robinson:
Yeah, absolutely agree with that. If you can make sure that the customer is happy, the client is happy, law firm is happy. What goes around, comes around. That referral will come back at some point when the opportunity arises. Dave, how important is a firm’s reputation and how does a firm go about improving it over time?
Dave Thomas:
Yeah. It’s highly important, to start off with that. It’s your brand. It’s who people believe you are in the community. So, how do you add credibility to your name, to your company? It’s at the forefront of opening up those relationships that’s going to result in business for you.
Dave Thomas:
I think that, I use this word a bunch, but it’s building those positive moments of truth with your audience. The way to do that is to get in front of them and get in front of them to be exactly where they are, share those similar interests, same synergies within your company.
Dave Thomas:
So, what we do is we do a lot of partnering with similarity companies that compliment Law Tigers, such as Bell Helmet, or different Harley Davidson dealerships, and different bike shops. So, we all have the same common interest, but we can all support each other.
Dave Thomas:
Then there’s a credibility circle that’s surrounding the core strategy and what we’re doing and building and growing our database, but also our potential clients. Because we know that riders is such an underserved and fragmented group, and sometimes misperceived. So, with our strategy, actually jumping into the trenches with them, our credibility is through the roof.
Dave Thomas:
That’s what really has positioned us to be the leading motorcycle marketing firm in the nation. Like Susan said, she’s seen tremendous growth in doubling and tripling. Three years ago when I started, we had just seven markets and now we’re at 47. That’s even through a pandemic year. So, it’s real. These numbers are actual numbers, and it’s really your word of mouth and referral, the referral engine, is incredible.
Jon Robinson:
So, let’s touch on the pandemic for a minute. Grassroots, you traditionally think these are in-person interactions. How have your grassroots campaigns evolved and changed during the pandemic?
Dave Thomas:
That’s a great question. I love it because I think for most of us marketers, or those that are just providing the services, it just made us better. It really forced us to get off our lazy butts, and get creative and think far outside the box. Because we were shooken. I mean, our world was turned upside down. But those that are resilient, like Susan’s company and Law Tigers, it forced us to be creative.
Dave Thomas:
So, some of the things that we did, John, is we were able to really rally with first responders because we know that they were on the front lines, and they needed resources, they needed support. So, we jumped right in. We developed a co-branded mask at the time when it was recommended in our community here in the state of Arizona. We did a lot of things with providing food drives, and really supporting the riding community as well.
Dave Thomas:
We had firms that did that independently to Law Tigers as well, that we provided products for them, where they were given out to community. So, I think the pandemic allowed us to do a couple of things, and that’s really show up. Show up when the times were really challenging. I think that those that did that and were smart enough to think outside the box and jump into those trenches, they’re benefit from it greatly today.
Dave Thomas:
This was one of our best years since I’ve been here, and I can directly tie that to the work that was done during the pandemic year. It was meaningful and we did it from the heart. Then obviously we’re reaping the reward because the relationships are outstanding.
Jon Robinson:
That’s great to hear.
Susan Barfield:
I was just going to add, that reminded me, Dave, Caseworks did something similar. During that time period, we were just focused on, how can we help the community? Caseworks has been a remote company since day one, so it didn’t impact us. We were already working from home.
Susan Barfield:
But we started to see our partners, I mean, their lives were turned upside down. They’re trying to manage their case volume. They’re trying to manage their employees, trying to get them to home. So what we did is we offered, I loved how you said, “Just show up.” So, we showed up by offering our services at cost. So, we weren’t trying to make money. We were just like, “Hey, we can provide our services. We’ll do it at cost just to help you through this time.”
Susan Barfield:
Showing up and offering those types of services just developed some deep relationships that, like you said, this going to be our best year. So, when we were super concerned about the pandemic and how it was going to impact our business, just doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, just show that it’s a great business decision, and we’re on the other side because of it.
Dave Thomas:
That’s awesome.
Jon Robinson:
Yeah. That’s a business’s opportunity to actually do what they say they’re going to do, to be there for their community and provide whatever is needed. Then at some point, this is a branding exercise that comes back and helps your firm, your business out. So, that was great to hear that both of you have had success during the pandemic in spite of everything that the whole world has been going through.
Jon Robinson:
This is an interesting question, and to everybody watching at home, this is something I asked Dave, I said, “Is this okay if I ask you this question?” Because many people don’t want to talk about money, but he said, “Yeah, let’s have at it.” How much of a marketing budget should a personal injury lawyer plan to spend in a year? How much of that should be allocated to grassroots activities?
Dave Thomas:
Great question, and let me begin with this. I say this a bunch, you probably heard me say this a time or two. Many, not just firms, I won’t just pick on the legal industry, but most folks that embark in marketing, it’s expensive, and it’s only getting more expensive by the day.
Dave Thomas:
But if you look at it as an expense, you’ve already set yourself back out the gate. Marketing isn’t an expense, it’s an investment. So, when you approach it with that mindset, now you know it’s a long-term play. So, going back to your direct question, I think grassroots is highly underserved in today’s market. I understand because it’s a digital age and we all are transitioning and trying to keep up with the competition.
Dave Thomas:
Much of what law firms would, what I’ve grown to understand, they’re very reactive, not proactive. So, they look at their competitors and they react. Because they said that if XYZ firm down the road is doing this, then we have to do the same thing to stay competitive.
Dave Thomas:
I like to say that infinity marketing is the future. What I mean by that is, having a complimentary marketing approach where it’s not just one channel. If you can be balanced with a nice digital marketing strategy complimented by some traditional, now if billboards are a little bit too expensive, there’s other ways that you can really tap into traditional strategies such as a radio spots and other mediums that’s more affordable to you.
Dave Thomas:
Then of course, what we’re talking about today I’m a huge fan of course, it’s grassroots. Grassroots, I mean hell, I’ve been doing this for a while, and that was the way to go back in late ’90s and early 2000, man. We were in our vehicles, and calling on businesses, and getting the first appointments and setting up the second appointments obviously, and all that good stuff.
Dave Thomas:
But that has fallen to the wayside just like cold calling. But I don’t want to digress so much, but if you can really go back to the basics. I talk about this a lot, going back to the basics, and that’s grassroots. Because we know that word of mouth marketing is king in many respects to doing what the end game of the other mediums are initially trying to accomplish.
Dave Thomas:
What I mean by that is, through your social strategy, through your traditional strategy, through your digital marketing strategy, what is the end goal? You want people to like and trust you and to do business with you.
Dave Thomas:
So, I think all of that is actually promoting word of mouth and a referral to trust you, to sign up and partner with your business. So, if you can go ahead and set forth a strong grassroots strategy now, for some of the smaller firms, they might say, Dave, you know what, we don’t have the resources.
Dave Thomas:
But you know what? You do. Your resource is yourself. Your resource are the employees in your office. Go out and be a part of some local community, feeding the underserved, partnering with different health drives in the community. There’s so many countless community events.
Dave Thomas:
A lot of the challenge with marketing, you think you need to do something that’s directly tied to your business. But at the beginning of the day, at the end of the day, what’s most important is reaching the community. Because if you’re doing business in that area, they need to know who you are. They need to know that XYZ firm, they care about me. They’re putting me first at all instance. I see them in the community. They’re holding up their sleeves. They’re exactly where we’re at. They’re building those meaningful relationships.
Dave Thomas:
I think you get ahead there. So, if you want a percentage breakdown, I think at the least 30% of what you do should be tied into grassroots, and there’s all types of creative ways to get it done.
Jon Robinson:
And a lot of them free, right?
Dave Thomas:
Oh, most of them free. We just did a bike giveaway, we’re at Sturgis right now, you guys can check that out, and it’s one of the largest prizes we’ve ever given away. I won’t even tell you how much that bike is worth. We put so much money into it. Law Tigers didn’t cost us anything but relationships, bringing in bike builders that brings on different parts, and we get someone to donate the bike. So, everyone wins because we market together. That’s what partnership, referral marketing, co-branding and marketing, is all about.
Jon Robinson:
Susan, we were talking earlier about some social media activity that you’ve seen be effective for some law firms. Can you give some examples of some law firms that you’ve seen have really effective social media strategies?
Susan Barfield:
Yeah, so I’ve seen great marketing efforts through Instagram over the last year, just seeing many more attorneys posting on Instagram. I think it’s fun because we’re getting to see who they are more in their environment. It’s relatable, and you almost feel like you’re getting to know them a little bit.
Susan Barfield:
For instance, Gregory, we know the guy likes to eat at nice restaurants, always eating great food and good wine. So, that’s always fun to see what’s the new restaurant that he’s at? It’s always somewhere new too, so that’s fun. Then Jason Webster, he’s always on some really cool hunt, so that’s kind of fun to watch him and his kiddos. Then Seth Meyer, I always just wonder if he actually works because he’s always laying around on the beach or skiing or doing something fun, so not sure.
Susan Barfield:
But anyway, no, my point is, is that I’m seeing a lot more marketing done on Instagram. I think that’s a really fun way to get to know people. Like what Dave said, you’ve got to get to know people for them to trust you. So, it’s really cool to see them not just in their suit and tie and just the corporate posts and whatever award that they just won posted on LinkedIn. We’re getting to see them and their family and what they like to do. So, that’s been really fun to watch.
Jon Robinson:
Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s a great way for firms at no cost to show off who they are, who the partners are and earn the trust of their audiences and potential customers.
Jon Robinson:
So, I want to thank you both for joining us today, Susan, Dave. Dave, if someone is interested in learning more about Law Tigers or wants to reach out to you, what’s your contact information? How should they do so?
Dave Thomas:
Yeah, lawtigersmarketing.com, you can reach me directly at daveatlawtigers.com. I always love to talk and discuss marketing. I really, truly love what we do here. Niche marketing motorcycle cases are highly sought after amongst personal injury attorneys. Right now we have about 27 markets available, so we’d love to talk to you if you’re interested.
Dave Thomas:
Yeah, thanks for having me again on your show, Jon. Thoroughly enjoyed myself and definitely enjoyed spending some time with you, Susan, getting to know you better as well.
Susan Barfield:
Yes, thanks so much, Dave, for joining us.
Jon Robinson:
Susan, if our audience wants to learn more about Caseworks, where should they go?
Susan Barfield:
Yeah, I’d be thrilled to talk to anyone. They can look at a little bit more about our services and what we do and what we offer at yourcaseworks.com, and then they can reach out to me directly at susan@yourcase.works.
Jon Robinson:
Excellent. Thank you both for joining us. Everyone, please go ahead and you can follow us on LinkedIn, you can subscribe to us on YouTube. Stay tuned for some more future episodes here. We’ll have some great guests coming up and some great episodes. Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Susan.
Susan Barfield:
Thank you.
Dave Thomas:
My pleasure.
